Engineer Trinkets = PvP hAxXoRz!

[isobelle]

So here I am, reading up on the WoW forums in regards to the upcoming PvP arena system. For those of you living under rocks, it goes a little something like this: You form a mini PvP guild of you and your pals. You get a separate little charter, and put 'me and Toby and Sally are going to zomgwtfpwn the 3v3 bracket' on there. You register it, and you have your own Arena Party. You can be in the same guild, or separate guilds, whatever. It's just for the sake of the new Burning Crusade PvP Arena tussles.

	Jack and coke FTW!

Fights inside the Arena (be they 1v1, 2v2, or 3v3) earn you "honor tokens" which can then be redeemed for PvP Gear. I'm pretty sure that they've done away with titles like 'High Warlord' and the like at this point. The expansion is trying to cut down on the brutal honor grind, and it’s inherently flawed decay system. According to the new system, you could conceivably play one match per day and still potentially earn the highest ranking PvP loots. Obviously, it would take three decades or so at that rate, but the mechanic is in place. Since you’re earning actual tokens that go in your bank instead of accruing some obscure stat on your character page, it’s possible to earn them over time without fear of losing your spot in line to do something silly like eat or use the bathroom. No longer will something trivial like having both of your legs mangled in a freak forklift accident down at the docks endanger your pursuit of that axe with 3 extra agility on it! After months of painful physical therapy you can jump right in where you left off!

Of course, it must suck for those who have already ground out "High Warlord" or "Defender of the Queen's Jewels" (or whatever they call it on the Alliance side) over the course of the last 8 months while losing their jobs, girlfriends, and complexion... but hey, tough break! Don't worry about me, I've never made it above rank 5, so the gaping hole in my soul labelled "PvP" isn't really that gaping after all. Thanks for your concern, but I think I'll learn to survive somehow.

Where was I? Oh yeah… Arena matches! So here comes the Arena System, designed to counteract all that jazz, while still providing “meaningful PvP” for those too lazy to leave capitol cities. Like I said, I was reading the forums about the whole thing, when this gem fell into my lap:



Hmmmm....

You'll need to give me a second to digest that crumb, because it seems a little odd. Here on live we have a battlegrounds system, and yet ... I don't remember there being a need for "every player (to) have to be Engineering to be competitive :-/ "

Last time I checked, engineering trinkets REPLACE other trinkets... I have yet to see the recipe that allows me to craft a Gnomish Third Trinket Slot. In fact, except for spell reflectors, just about every trinket you can craft is pretty much a waste of a slot. Plus, warriors are getting a new skill at 64 that allows them to reflect any spell, so the issue of having the 'shadow reflector *or* flame reflector' on becomes moot... well, for warriors anyway.

I'd much rather have a Hand of Justice or a Zandalarian Hero Charm equipped, and those are from ZG and under. Are you trying to tell me there are no better trinkets in AQ40 or BWL (Naxx?!) that you would rather equip some stupid net-shooting crap trinket that might backfire instead? Hot damn, stop the presses! You got netted "a few times over the weekend"!??!! I smell an X-SPLOIT!

I leveled engineering up to 300 one day without ever leaving Ogrimmar, just because I got sick of having only one hearthstone. At 300 I earned the right to make some stupid Gadgetzan teleporter that has a 4 hour (!) cooldown. Half the time it drops me to my death outside of town, or gives me some debuff that disallows warlock summons for two hours. I carry jumper cables as a joke, because when was the last time the raid wiped, but the main tank lived? I have a bunch of stupid trinkets in my bank, but they're honestly just a waste of bag space (in my backpacks or in the bank).

I'm sorry but this theory just doesn't hold water.

Here's an idea to make it a 'truly level' playing ground: let's ban all professions, instead of just engineering. Blacksmiths are able to craft some rare Bind on Craft chestpieces and weapons, so in order to compete with that, everyone would need to be also need to be blacksmiths. Oh, wait.... Enchanters can put fancy stats on weapons, but I guess you can pay an enchanter to do your weapon, too... But what if your weapon is better than mine? What if your guild is more organized than mine, and you've seen higher content? We wouldn't want anyone to actually have to go and play the game to become competitive, would we?

	Not crafted by Engineering, but totally overpowered anyway.

Let's have Arena matches be fought stark naked... no weapons or trinkets to 'unbalance' the playing field. And let's make entering the Arena impossible with a keyboard attached to your PC. Some people use those fruity Z-Boards or whatever, and that might create an unfair playing field. Let's make everyone use standard two button scroll wheel mice, and force them to click on every spell button they want to use. Oh, wait...crap. That won't work either, because a mage can still shoot frost spells and stuff while the warriors are running around swinging their naked fists... Hmmm... OH! I got it! Each team enters the arena, and the members of each team /roll 100. That would leave it completely up to chance, and give everyone an equal opportunity to earn honor tokens, no matter what silly profession they've been grinding!

Hooray!



Win-Win FTW!

Isobelle sounds about as jaded and grumpy as I am... well done!

[dermien]

So is there really any point to AV/WSG/AB now?

[Damo]

not realy i guess, since BC is comming out soon

The point of battlegronds at this very moment? erm ever heard about fun?
What's the ppoint doing ANYthing in the game right now? ANY loot you'll get will be crap in BC... Don't play for loot, honor or what'so evva, play to entertain yaselves

I'm already ahead of you dweebs. I've cancelled my account in anticipation of the NEXT expansion. Everything you do between now and then is pointless, and i will be victorious over you because i wasn't wasting my time! Yee haw!

[Frybread]

Originally Posted by Guest

I'm already ahead of you dweebs. I've cancelled my account in anticipation of the NEXT expansion. Everything you do between now and then is pointless, and i will be victorious over you because i wasn't wasting my time! Yee haw!

Nice idea! I'm going to quit now and wait until the 4th or 5th expansion so I won't be wasting my time.

[Naolin]

Originally Posted by Frybread

Nice idea! I'm going to quit now and wait until the 4th or 5th expansion so I won't be wasting my time.

Psh everyone knows the 6th expansion will make WoW Meaningfull

[dermien]

Originally Posted by Guest

The point of battlegronds at this very moment? erm ever heard about fun?
What's the ppoint doing ANYthing in the game right now? ANY loot you'll get will be crap in BC... Don't play for loot, honor or what'so evva, play to entertain yaselves

I take it you haven't got max revered in any of the areas yet..? I've quit months ago and if I never see AB again it'll be too soon.

Max revered?

Virgin.

did you get the "stfu virgin, im leet" card in your booster set also?

[SeiferTim]

Looks like all you have to do to win in PvP is be a Gnome, lol.
Racial Engineering Bonus + Escape Artist FTW

Especially if you can't play with your keyboard plugged in! We little folk are hard to click on, ive been told

[Mageyoulook]

I have got to get used to logging in before posting >.<

Originally Posted by dermien

So is there really any point to AV/WSG/AB now?

You will need BG tokens to buy items come BC.

[Jynxe]

ROFL
I just now read your trinket descriptions. Those are wonderful. I feel the tingle on the inside.

Whilst the humour isn't lost on me, there is a need to ban certain items from Arena fights.

If flask, potions, bombs and fire/shadow reflectors were allowed in the Arena then some players will utilise every single one of them to gain an advantage. In turn, this forces any player facing these buffed out teams to either A) Be at a gross advantage or C) employ potions, bombs and reflectors themselves.

The end result is that these items are practically a requirement for anybody wanting to score highly in the Arena. I would hope it's obvious why this is something to avoid, the Arena is supposed to focus as much on skill as possible and not how many Dreamfoil your guild bank has stashed.

It's less serious if you're only casually interested in the Arena but any players who want to compete seriously in the Arena don't want to respec their professions and have an inherent gold cost to all their battles.

Most Engineering trinkets ARE rubbish but you markedly understate the power of reflectors in small PvP. If you'd rather have ToEp in than a Shadow reflector when you face a Warlock or Shadow Priest then I really rather hope I face you a lot in the Arena (although I won't because I'm Euro, but admitting that would kind of ruin that last point and make me look like some kind of idiot.... damn).

Explosives didn't get any mention either. The ability to drop an AoE damage + Stun or, if you're rich enough, an Arcane Bomb is hugely significant in a small battle. Anybody serious about finishing high in the Arena rankings WILL need to spec Engineering to "be competitive". You can't compare the ability to farm for gear (something everybody has free access to) the ability to plant bombs and use reflectors (something that costs you a profession slot). Nor can you really compare gear improvements (Enchants) which are a one off cost and everybody gets anyway to quaffing consumables (Potions, Flasks) which are recurring costs and simply out of the budget of many players due to steep prices.

Hilarious article but anchored in faulty arguments.

Go forth to victory my friends.

[Runned]

I agree, adding items to pvp makes everything unfair. First lets take away all trinkets, then all items with clicky/activated effects, then let's take away items all together so everyone has a chance to fight fair without putting any effort or thought into this game.

Its like those people who complain when someone who already has a epic mount rolls on the Tiger or Raptor Mount. "ZOMG i haven't even bought my 40 mount cause its to much money, you cant roll need you have your 40 and your 60 mount!"

If you cant compete because all you do is log in and queue up while these other people are farming, skilling up, and... "Preparing" to do arena then dont do arena..or hope you dont find someone who actually plays the game more than you.

Iso brought a great point up. I know if i was a mage i wouldn't waste the money to bring flasks in, but if i wanted to on any given day when i just want to blow people up... i would.

Thats all, oh and Iso is a super funny person everyone should love him...

[Donkeypunnch]

Originally Posted by Guest

Whilst the humour isn't lost on me, there is a need to ban certain items from Arena fights.

Hilarious article but anchored in faulty arguments.

The whole artical is based on whining little bitchs who are getting crushed in BG because its not fair that they dont put the time in to get the kickass rewards.
Tradeskills also take time, its unfair for those who choose to spend the TIME to lvl thier skills, farm for cash to buy mats, or run around for two hours doing nothing but picking dreamfoil, because somebody got netted buy a crappy trinket, or cant afford the pots or whatever.
Boo fucking Hoo.

On my server Horde 19 out of 20 times get crushed in AV, so i think AV favors alliance to much.
So this is my way to make it fair.
1. alliance will not be allowed out of thier base until 20 mins into the game.
2. all alliance bunkers/graveyards/ect will have no NPC's gaurding them.
3. the alliance grave yard will be located at the top of the highest mountain so when they jump down 99% fatality will occur
4. if by some chance alliance wins the BG, horde will be able to put in a ticket to a GM and have the result reversed, all alliance toons that participated in the BG loose all thier gear and 10 lvls.

that should make things FAIR.

Sack up, put in the time, stfu, or go play tetris.

[Jynxe]

If you can make it, buy it, loot it, earn it, then you can bring it with you where ever you want to take it. The end. Why? Because it's yours. You put the time in to get said equipment.
I'm a hunter. Should I not be able to FD and Trap? What if I do it twice in the same fight?
Or, what if almost have a 'lock dead and he uses his health stone? Is that wrong?
NO! Play your toon. Use what's available to EVERYONE. No one is cheated. No one is rooked over due to being out geared. If Johny Schmoe wants to sit at his house all week and play while you're out at the bar, then cool. But don't bitch about it.
Every time someone cries cause they lost a fight on a pvp server, I seriously want to scream. I get my ass handed to me all the time. But I don't bitch. I get pissed enough to want to EARN or WORK FOR what ever it will take to help me be able to defeat what has beaten me.
Without defeat, there is no desire to go forth to be stronger.
Whats sad is this new trend of "give me easy" isn't just in the game world. It's some bullshit that's going on in society today and it's seeping into the gaming world. People want everything given to them, and spoiled shits all of them. But I digres.
Engineering isn't going to win or loose a battle. Skill will. Perserverance will. Actually playing the game will.
Sorry, but if you can't play very much, so sad, but even that's a crappy excuse.
My son, whom I only have on the weekends ONLY gets to play on the weekends. He's got ishy gear and is just lev 60. He's not once complained, and can kick the crap about most people that attack him.
So, like I said, just play the damned game and quit crying. Geez. Prolly have a clammy soft hand shake too.

Originally Posted by dermien

So is there really any point to AV/WSG/AB now?

What about the thing called "play a video game for fun"?
No fun playing wow? Find another game.

[Frybread]

ahha how many times did you have to /random to get that screenshot?

Great article by the way, it's the reason I finally took up engineering.

[mven]

Honestly if Blizzard wanted to make Arena PvP all about skill they would simply force people to use specific armor/weapon sets that were only usable in the Arena and which all players had access to for free when entering the Arena.

Like if they basically made 3 sets of armor for each class that benefit each of the different talent lines and then allowed players to mix and match what they wanted to wear from these sets before going into the arena to compete. Sorta like a football uniform or something. Then everyone would basically be on equal footing and the combat could be all about "skill".

If they are going to allow people to compete in their Tier75 uber armor of asspounding vs people in their l33t instance blues then I believe engineering trinkets will be the least of your worries~

*shrug*

[Fastinyoh]

Does anyone remember how Everquest introduced the dungeon mission things that turned everyone regardless of actual level into a low level guard/monster?

The group would then unequip their rusty short swords (because punching does more damage!), and continue on to slay goblins for about 40 minutes. At the end of the 40 minutes, the players return to their original characters with a substantial amount of experience gained.

I tried playing Everquest again awhile back, and remember laughing so hard at how monotonous these missions were. They completely removed any progress you had made on your character for a good half an hour as you punched away at monsters that were lined up for the kill. Level 10's could effectively group with 70's, and even go to max level without having a single piece of equipment.

Not that I cared that this was happening, I just found the concept horrible. I realize it would be just as pointless if this was implemented in some way for PvP. These games are designed to make use of the player's equipment, and when you take enough of that equipment away you get a really shitty game that is virtually independent of skill.

Maybe give us all a bow, let us aim, and just turn it into a FPS. Or just leave it as is, implement the arenas. You only have to decide whether to be the serious gamer who takes the video game seriously because video games are serious business, or the person who just plays the game to have fun.

Originally Posted by Donkeypunnch

The whole artical is based on whining little bitchs who are getting crushed in BG because its not fair that they dont put the time in to get the kickass rewards.
Tradeskills also take time, its unfair for those who choose to spend the TIME to lvl thier skills, farm for cash to buy mats, or run around for two hours doing nothing but picking dreamfoil, because somebody got netted buy a crappy trinket, or cant afford the pots or whatever.
Boo fucking Hoo.

On my server Horde 19 out of 20 times get crushed in AV, so i think AV favors alliance to much.
So this is my way to make it fair.
1. alliance will not be allowed out of thier base until 20 mins into the game.
2. all alliance bunkers/graveyards/ect will have no NPC's gaurding them.
3. the alliance grave yard will be located at the top of the highest mountain so when they jump down 99% fatality will occur
4. if by some chance alliance wins the BG, horde will be able to put in a ticket to a GM and have the result reversed, all alliance toons that participated in the BG loose all thier gear and 10 lvls.

that should make things FAIR.

Sack up, put in the time, stfu, or go play tetris.

You're extended the argument to something it isn't.

It's not about wanting to ruin peoples hard work, or about people not being willing to 'put in the time'.

Nobody is asking for all customisation to be removed and all competition reduced to vanillia, explicitly fair encounters. Even without profession, there is still a great deal of give in Arenas because gear is such a factor.

The simple fact is if professions are allowed then certain profession items would be required to reach competitive ratings.

So there is two choices

1) Disallow profession items
2) Indirectly force anybody who wishes to reach 'high' ratings to take these professions.

Your choice is 2 is it?